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Catslooche ice cubes

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queen
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:10 pm
Tagline: pollster

Not really a complaint, more a curiosity.What is it about Catalooche slopes or snowmaking that creates such horrific snow/ ice balls? Ice Cookies, Ice rocks, or whatever you call them its like skiing on frozen baseballs! Not fun and kind of dangerous too. My theory has been that its the moisture content in the snow they blow but what do I know? I've skied for 25 years all over the SE resorts and I've never run into this consistent phenomenon at other places. They all have the bad days but it seems like you always end up on the frozen ball bearing! Maybe the iciness explains the lackluster grooming on the higher runs also
Timski
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I don't know. But they make a lot of snow. They may be prioritizing snow (really it's ice) quantity over quality in order to have enough base to function.
thefirewarde
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If you till wet snow just after it's been made, you get marbles/death cookies. They can also show up in other circumstances - busting up solid hardpack, say - but I'd bet that Cataloochee doesn't have the luxury of making dry snow right now. They need as much water on the hill as possible to last through a very warm looking Christmas, and they don't have enough terrain to leave trails closed to cure. It does kind of suck to ski on but the alternative is no skiing. They might also have pushed things a degree or two warmer than ideal, again looking for maximum snowmaking over snow quality.
queen
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:10 pm
Tagline: pollster

my second theory was that they might purposely start the season with more ice as dry snow melts faster and ice provides a better base
canadianbacon828
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The cookies are just from grooming very wet snow at high humidity and marginal temps. There are several misconceptions about snowmaking posted above:

-"Really it's ice". True, by definition. However, people often confuse hard pack man made and or natural snow with ice because the surface is loud when you slide on it etc. They come through the lift line on a 40 degree hard pack sunny day and complain about how "icy" it is...People also confuse different snowmaking systems and just assume huge ice cubes are being shaved and blown out...therein lies the misconception. Systems like that do exist in small indoor facilities like Dubai...But every resort in the Southeast relies on the nucleation of water into crystals with the aid of nozzles, an air source, and our good friend Pseudomonas syringae, ie Snomax. Calling man made snow "Artificial snow" is also a common misconception. Man made snow is still snow, albeit the crystals have a different structure than natural snow.
-"The trails need to stay closed to cure". Sort of? They might adjust grooming schedules to after night closing if it looks like the temperature will be around 40 degrees +/- and not cloudy...That will allow the snow to set up overnight and buy some time in between snowmaking windows. But the snow isn't going to set up or "cure" during the day if it's warm so no point in closing skiable terrain.
-"They want to make ice and very wet snow because they need it for their base". Sort of? Yes more volume is always more ideal. That being said, amount/volume is always dictated by the relationship between temperature and humidity, ie Wet Bulb. If you are making very wet snow then the water isn't fully nucleating. That isn't ideal for making a base and they aren't doing that intentionally contrary to popular belief. Wet snow isn't going to insulate the ground any better than a drier mixture. If you see one of the resorts making snow during marginal temps, it's because they are either desperate or anticipating more ideal conditions soon. People think you just flip a magic switch and all of a sudden everything is running...not the case at all. It's a very time consuming and labor intensive process. The same goes for shutting down snowmaking operations. If I had a dollar for every time someone asked "can you turn the guns off for one run?"...yeah, sure just for you lol.

Case in point... probably more than anyone wanted to know but after 25 years in the industry and listening to the same misconceptions I had to get it off my chest. Also, please thank a snowmaker, lift mechanic, and or machine operator instead of complaining about snowmaking efforts, thanks.
queen
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:10 pm
Tagline: pollster

Like I said, not complaining, just curious. Cat is my place.
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